Messed!Up
The Scotsmen of Mogwai have carved out a legendary status in the world of post-rock, blending cinematic soundscapes with crushing noise and delicate melodies. Their ability to shift between quiet, introspective moments and thunderous walls of distortion has set them apart from the rest of the scene, earning them a dedicated global following and a very loyal fanbase.
In 2021, their album As the Love Continues reached the top of the UK Album Chart, marking their first chart-topping record and thus showcasing their growing mainstream recognition. In January, they returned with their eleventh studio album The Bad Fire, and another chart success on the UK Album Chart. When Mogwai popped by Hamburg for a gig at Grosse Freiheit 36, we sat down with Stuart and Barry and chatted about following up a number one album, hating being pigeonholed, and aiming to be the best band of Lanarkshire, ever.
Chart success built on a loyal fanbase
First, congratulations on having another top album at the UK album charts; you’re up there with FKA twigs, Sabrina Carpenter, and Ed Sheeran. That’s your fourth top ten album now.
I know that you have mentioned it before, especially after As The Love Continues ended up at number one back in 2021; it’s weird to see your name at the top of the album chart, right? On the other hand, you’re legends in the scene.
Barry: “Thank you very much! May it continue; I’m not going to complain” (laugh)
“It’s still weird to us and a little bit crazy. I mean, it’s not something that we thought would ever happen, and it’s weird that it just keeps happening. You just have to keep your head and keep it going. But legends? It just doesn’t feel like it, but if you say so I’ll take it”. (laugh)
I was as surprised as you and many fans when As The Love Continues ended up at the top. Post-rock isn’t really what I would associate with easy listening and chart-topping records. But even if it’s weird to see you up there and, like you said in another interview once, Barry, that album charts don’t matter, doesn’t it feel like you deserve the attention after 30 years doing this and all the hard work you’ve put into it?
Barry: “I think that we’re quite lucky that the people that like us are quite loyal, and because we’ve been making music for so long, younger people are kind of discovering our music too. So, we’re very happy about it. But it’s weird when you see us next to all these global superstars on the charts or sitting next to them at some music award. We’re local stars, that’s good enough (laugh). During one week we sell the same amount of records that they sell every week (laugh), but it’s still pretty cool“.
One big reason for your chart success is your fans. You have a loyal fanbase, and fans buying physical records push the albums to higher chart positions because physical sales triumph digital streams. Isn’t that the best validation you can get as a band, to know you have a fanbase that stays with you whatever happens?
I mean, many bands that started in the digital era struggle with keeping their fans because today’s fans are not loyal anymore; they’re busy chasing the next star on some playlist.
Barry: “I was just going to say that it’s great that they have stayed with us and that we’ve managed to get more people to come and see us. You can see it in the audiences, there’s younger people there as well now. So that’s kind of a very nice benefit of all that”.
Stuart: “You almost have to rely on the chance of the algorithms and all these kinds of things now, because there’s less music magazines, less radio shows, and less opportunities for music to be showcased. And it’s pretty weird when you do hear about people who find our music on Spotify or YouTube because all that stuff is just AI-decided. I just don’t get the algorithms, it’s really weird. But better to be there than not to be there, I suppose”.
The challenge of following up chart success
Following up a chart-topping record is one of the most daunting challenges a band can face. Success, while exhilarating, can bring immense pressure as fans, critics, and the industry expect something just as good, if not better. Bands often battle with their own doubts about whether they can replicate or surpass their peak. Fans may want more of the same, and labels, managers, and streaming platforms push for results, often valuing numbers over artistry. This balancing act can be a creative tightrope.
After the chart-topping success with their previous record, As The Love Continues, it’s interesting to hear if Stuart and Barry felt the pressure of making it back to the top when recording The Bad Fire.
Having a number one album can also be a burden when you record the next. Did you feel any pressure when you recorded The Bad Fire? Or did you just shrug it off because it doesn’t really matter?
Barry: “I think I heard Stuart say it didn’t [to him], and it only did at the beginning of the process for me and then I very quickly forgot about it because it doesn’t really matter”.
Stuart: “But it made me more relaxed to know that people are that interested in our new music. Our last record [As The Love Continues] was received better than any of our other ones, so it was like it took a bit of pressure off, like I didn’t feel we had to justify or prove ourselves because people are going to at least be interested in this. So it kind of made me relax, and I could focus on just making some music that we like and hope that people go along with us. Thankfully, it looks like they mostly have”.
Barry: “When you hear it rationally thought about like that and not the way that I think about things, it makes sense, right (laugh)? I was just like, ‘Oh no, we’ve got to do this again’ (laugh). But honestly, it went away really quickly, kind of as soon as we started to write and then record. I was just thinking about it beforehand, like ‘Oh, we better make another good album’. That’s stupid.
I also find it interesting that you have more vocals on this album than any of your previous records. You left the heavier side of post-rock back in the 2000s and turned to soundtracks and filmscores, but all were mostly instrumental. With the vocals on The Bad Fire, I get an indie rock kind of feeling. Or maybe you don’t categorise music like that?
Barry: “I think we’ve been kind of annoyed by the label post-rock so much that we’ve tried to not make that kind of music ever again”. (laugh)
Stuart: “I have to be totally honest. Anytime I see some music and it’s described as post-rock, I almost always dislike it”.
Barry: “Oh, it’s very much the same here”.
Stuart: “I mean, some of the bands that people talk about who are some of my favorite bands, like Tortoise or Godspeed You! Black Emperor, they’re a bit like heavy metal, isn’t it? I don’t know how to describe it, but I know once something is divided into a type of music or in categories, people start thinking about what makes that that type of music rather than how good that music is”.
“I’ve seen it happen with shoegaze. Oh my God, all these new shoegaze bands are terrible – they’re all terrible (laugh). They just worked out how Neil in Slowdive made a sound with his guitar, but they’re not realizing that people like those bands because the music is good. People tend to forget that what people like about music is music, not what types of guitar effects or what guitar pedals they use”.
“So I kind of feel the same way about post-rock, and it’s like Godspeed[You! Black Emperor]; you’ll do a song that’s 50 minutes long with a big crescendo, and it sounds amazing, and it’s really emotional. But it’s not because of the crescendo or because of how they played it, it’s because the music is good”.
“Another thing is when you describe something as a type of music, I think it’s a bit limited. It doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve seen some people talk about a piece of music like, ‘That’s not post-rock’ and I’m like, ‘Well, it’s just us’. I don’t want to be limited by defined musical structures”.
“Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, by the way”. (laugh)
Barry: “When you’re kids, you make different music from what you do when you’re almost 50. You and your music has changed so it’s a bit weird to call it the same”.
Stuart: “But I also get it. Record shops need it. I’m sure loads of the krautrock bands didn’t like getting called krautrock, or post-punk bands either. But I understand why they need it. But I really think we should have our own section in record shops (laugh). We’ve made enough records, it’s a good big chunk and deserves its own section”. (laugh)
Barry: “Something similar to that that really puts me off is when people ask what kind of pedals you use. They’re spending all this time on the details, whereas I and Stuart will have a cheap Boss pedal and a cheap distortion and a decent amplifier (laugh). It’s not about what you use, really. Well, it can be, but it’s mostly not about what you use. In the end, it’s about the music that you write. That kind of annoys me and makes me think they’re wasting their time – because they are”.
Stuart: “Equipment doesn’t matter, really”.
The Bad Fire has got great reviews in Germany, especially for the production, and you worked with Grammy-winning producer John Congleton for the first time. I heard that he didn’t know about your previous success on the UK chart.
Barry: “That was a really funny interview because he had no idea, and I thought ‘Great he doesn’t give a shit”. (laugh)
“We always wanted to work with John and Dave [Fridmann] who we worked with on the last two records couldn’t travel [from the US] and I couldn’t leave the country because my daughter was sick, and we needed someone new to come over. And we like John’s records, like Angel Olsen’s records and tons of stuff he has done that is really good. So yeah, he was a really good pick”.
The new record is also a break from writing film scores. You have been writing film scores for twenty years by now. If I remember it right, the first score you did was for the Zidane documentary back in 2006, but what made you go in that direction? It’s quite a different process of writing music when what you write has to, sort of, be synchronized with video.
Barry: “Yeah, it was completely different and pretty much a carte blanche thing when we started to work. We saw what was going on when we helped with the music for The Fountain with Clint Mansell, and we could see that he kind of had to please quite a lot of people when doing that”.
Stuart: “And there’s a lot of people involved. When we start, we start writing music with a vague idea of the sort of atmosphere of the project”.
Barry: “And they have a much bigger input to what you’re doing. What did we do after that?” (turns to Stuart)
Stuart: “We did one where they fired us. We were told that we didn’t like what we were doing”.
Barry: (laugh) “They fired us from one because we didn’t like what was going on. But then I guess we also realized that there is another body that has to be sort of pleased, and it’s all for the good of the film, too. We did a project recently, and they were kind of hands off and just let us do what we wanted to do, and they were happy with it. Obviously there’s things that have to fit, but if you leave people to do what they do, they’re happier and you’ll make better music I think”.
“But there’s never been a comedy yet. We’re waiting for that to happen”. (laugh)
You’ve been around for about 30 years, and it’s quite impressive for any band to be around for such a long time. As a last question, looking back on what you have achieved and having seen the Mogwai community grow over the years, what would you like the legacy of Mogwai to be?
Stuart: “One of the best bands from Lanarkshire, ever (laugh)”.
“To be honest, I don’t know. People like our music, and that’s enough. That’s great. No, that’s brilliant. Like, you can start a band with your pals and manage to make records and go on tour and inspire other bands. I’m happy with that, and I’ll enjoy it right up until the moment I die, and then it really doesn’t matter. I’ll be fucking dead. So who cares? No legacy needed after you’re dead”. (laugh)
Barry: “The children just fighting over the Burns millions, that’s the legacy. Millions of Turkish Lira”. (laugh)
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Photographer: Niko Schmuck
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